Q&A Forums

new fusion Post New Topic | Post Reply

Author	Comments
josh degraauw Posted: Jun 07, 2008 02:17 PM	new fusion anyone used the new fusion gun yet? comments, remarks, flaws?? greetz, josh
Posted: Jun 07, 2008 09:43 PM	I know of three sprayers in my area that use the gap pro.(that includes me) one guy switched over to the fusion. two monthes later he bought back his gap pro guns! (both of them) and sold the fusion! that is how much he disliked the fusion. this is a 20-30 sets a month sprayer. the mixing chambers for the gap pro are still available from Gama and Best Choice insulation (Wear Tech and Machine) Graco is still making "firehose" mixing chambers. They spray like a firehose! no pattern. They are good for spraying into recessed area, but that is 1% of our needs. this one just opinion. you will get more! good luck. but spend your hard earned money carefully.`
josh degraauw Posted: Jun 08, 2008 05:25 AM	thanx for the reply,but i mean the new new fusion, with the cleaning agent integrated into the gun.. itb also has one mixing chamber which can be set from small to large.. that one josh
Posted: Jun 09, 2008 10:16 AM	this gun is the Fusion "CS". so new that nobody has one yet! pricing is not even available. I am confident it will be more than $1700.00 (regular fusion price) There might be somebody out there who got one to try out in the field for Graco. the previous comments were about the regular fusion gun. Have you gotten prices? how much for each 'clear shot cartridges' ?
josh degraauw Posted: Jun 09, 2008 10:49 AM	i called graco on it, they will have one to try next week. the only downside will be that it will probably be too small. graco calls it a good substitute for the gx8.. hated that thing, so lets see.. will keep you posted jos
josh degraauw Posted: Jun 09, 2008 02:08 PM	2100 for the gun, 7 for the cartridge.. will drop after a few weeks.. josh
Lane Hogstad Posted: Jun 09, 2008 08:31 PM	CPI has info on them on their web site.
SPRAYFOAM GODDESS Posted: Jun 10, 2008 10:27 AM	One of our contractors had the pleasure of testing the new gun. He reported to love the gun, and is a 10 yr GX-7 user. I am expecting high sales and good reports on this gun. I have not personally sprayed with it yet or rebuilt it, but will as soon as I can get one.
Dennis Alter Posted: Jun 16, 2008 10:08 AM	I have seen, used and trained on the new Fusion. It is a sweet gun. The mixing chanber can be adjusted from a small stream to full bore. The clear shot fluid come in a tube that fits up in the handle, and is good for about 1500 shots.
Jim Coler Posted: Jul 01, 2008 06:21 PM	Just got one delivered today. Go figure Graco adds more complexity to an OK gun and makes the parts so they are more likely to need replaced. I'm getting sick of Graco bleeding us out little by little with overpriced parts and complexity that doesn't make sense. They also made it so you can't just change between the Fusion AP and the Fusion CS. You have to change the yolk manifold which is not as easy as just the gun. I just took it apart to check things out and found metal burs and chips all over it. If I hadn't pulled everything apart and checked everything, it likely would have fouled on me and crossed over. I would have had to buy new parts - imagine that - a new gun and needing new parts right out of the box from Graco. Haven't tried it yet, but will check back in once I get some time behind it.
Josh Lowman Posted: Jul 02, 2008 09:38 AM	Its an all new gun with an all new design. Made to make everyday spraying for efficient why make a new gun with and old design. Maybe research before u purchase a new gun. Yes the fluid manifold is different.
SPRAYFOAM GODDESS Posted: Jul 02, 2008 02:41 PM	I got two the other day, tore them apart, put them back together, did it again, and I really like it. We sprayed a flat gun with a 00 chamber and the TP100 wall kit and each one of my ladies, yes ladies, were able to fill the cavity in a single pass with open cell. OK, some of us OVER filled it, but hey it works good. The gun didn't clog at all, like the other stud wall kit. We found the performance of the foam to be great! in both round and flat. We are trying closed cell next week, I will report back. We have them on sale this month too.
Jim Coler Posted: Jul 02, 2008 11:24 PM	SoDak, I did do my research and knew there were some new things, but Graco was pretty hush-hush on this until they decided to release it. I understand that some things needed to change to make it better, but it seems some of the things they changed are also to keep things proprietary to Graco and only purchase parts through them - expensive parts at that. They've added parts which seem to make it more complex and I'm not sure they add value - at leeast none I can see yet. As a quality engineer for over 10 years working with design teams, it seems the didn't use value engineering from a sprayer's viewpoint and from a maintenance viewport. But it sure seems to add value to their pocket with all new parts to stock and more complex parts at that. Based on seeing the parts in it after tearing it apart, I don't know hwo they can get away with saying it has fewer parts than the Fusion AP - unless they have a new counting system that they introduced with the gun.
Gerry Wagoner Posted: Jul 04, 2008 09:20 AM	New math? P2 me boys. P2...
Paul Diaz de Rivera Posted: Jul 07, 2008 12:54 AM	im planning to get one, i heard they are calling it clear shot gun. my gun is due to arrive next month. im not so sure about the cleaning agent, they are selling it per box in 50's and 100's i think. another marketing strategy from graco. each cartridge can shoot up to a thousand shots.
Posted: Jul 07, 2008 12:47 PM	This is the best gun I have used so far!
SPRAYFOAM GODDESS Posted: Jul 07, 2008 10:47 PM	2 lb giant - I am assuming your using 2 lb foam how was it, did you use round or flat? I sent out my gun for one of our customers to try out and report back before he bought one. foam75 - why are you waiting till next month?
Jim Coler Posted: Jul 21, 2008 11:43 PM	Ok, Got a chance to try it and I have to say it seemed to have a nice pattern. Granted, only 1 day behind it so far, but it seemed ot spray smooth and it was nice having the adjustment of volume on the back to dial in the right thickness. This volume adjustment is a bit confusing and awkward since you have to turn off the air to change it, but I have to admit it seems like a nice gun. I was only using the round tip so far but would like to try the flat tip since the old one sucked so bad after it got clogged the first time! Will keep you posted with more gun time.
Jim Coler Posted: Aug 12, 2008 08:59 AM	OK, after a month or so, I did have it clog up once and when I pulled it apart to clean it one spring for the side seal went flying into oblivion and the other I didn't see but must have done the same since it was no where to be found. No comes the Kicker. I called to get replacement springs and you have to order the entire side seal assembly kit for $256!!!! Those are expensive springs!!!! This is what I was talking about with the design of the gun and Graco making it more proprietary which makes it more expensive. To make matters even worse - I order the $256 side seal kit and it's been on back order for 2 weeks now. You would think that they would have a bank of replacement parts available once they put a gun up for sale. Just Graco being Graco! If they don't get their act together and start working with us installers instead of nickel and diming us to death, someone else will come along and kick their rear side into next week.
SPRAYFOAM GODDESS Posted: Aug 12, 2008 09:52 AM	Sorry to hear you had a bad experience. Call 800.289.8272 they have the cartridges in stock, and when I took apart the side seal cartridge, I had a time getting the spring out. Once you all gripe, and distributors gripe, they will make that spring available individually (my personal thinking.) Have you got a new manual, you can download the latest from Graco, 312666, I know that we - well my old company - bought 30 guns or so, and they all had the old manual in them, you can tell the version, which is a letter at the end, and the current version is "D". I am not a Graco advocate, although I like them, I have worked with many mfrs, and parts for a long time, and let me tell you, they listen and are easy to work with, as far as getting changes made and ulimately helping the customer. My 2 cents.
Jim Coler Posted: Aug 12, 2008 10:29 AM	Sprayfoam Goddess, I hope you're right. That's why I've said what I've said here. Hopefully this and the feedbakc through their dealers will make some changes. It doesn't excuse the fact that they changed some of the design of the parts to be manufactured at lower costs and many times increased the prices by 10 fold. They made many of the parts more complex (unnecessarily) and proprietary where they are price prohibitive to have your own mold made up and they can't be turned by any local shop anymore. I think they saw too many guys in this industry finding more cost effective sources for their parts and made them more complex to bring us all back to them. If they are listening to us, they aren't providing any feedback back to us or encouraging frank feedback. I also haven't had good experiences with their warranty since I but a transfer pump and it leaked within 2 weeks and they told me "sorry" and I was on my own. This is contrary to their warranty letter they recently sent out stating that they stand behind their products. It just goes to show that actions speak louder than words and their actions are saying they're out to make big bucks off of us and keep us in their pocket as long as possible.
SPRAYFOAM GODDESS Posted: Aug 12, 2008 11:40 AM	Well let me apologize for whomever your working with regarding warranty services, that is NOT how the warranty works, I have had much success with warranty issues. You should first be checking with the tech support guys at your supplier to help you with the issue, if they can not resolve it, nor replacement parts can not resolve it, then it should be sent in for repair, to whom you purchased it from. This, including freight should be covered, provided you did not cause the problem, which, tech support would verify. We could have another discussion about the guns parts, but some other time. I know it can be very frustrating, and Graco's policy is this, distributors don't have to service or warranty the equipment/parts if they were not the original seller, I don't like that, so if you get screwed by your seller, your screwed, unless you have original paperwork with dates and the equipment all has serial numbers and date codes. I could give you a lot of information, don't want to bore you out. I will have you give me a call next week. I just like to be helpful, not pushy, not selling you and for that you will remember me. OK, I am off to the waterpark with children, woohoo.
Posted: Aug 15, 2008 11:28 PM	I've spent 23 yrs in the SPF business,,,, The Fusion is probably the best gun ever built. The only problems associated with this gun, would be the applicator not knowing how to maintain it.
Brian Lee Posted: Sep 26, 2008 10:20 PM	We've been trying a new Fusion CS and really like it. Overall, it saves a lot of time over our GAP guns. After 3 straight days of great spraying we had a crossover. When tearing down the gun we also found a lot of filings left behind from the manufacturing process. Although cleaning it up wasn't bad, it should have been done. We've also checked into parts pricing. A complete O-ring kit is upwards of $150.00. Check valves, which can't be serviced with individual parts, are about $125.00 each I think. Couple that with the $250.00 side seals that riversnrocks mentioned and it makes a great gun much too expensive to operate.
Jim Coler Posted: Sep 27, 2008 12:24 AM	I concurr! Mine has become a very espensive fixure in my gunbox. It stick on or won't trigger and much too expensive to continue throwing parts at it. maybe I can send back the CS fluid tubes I haven't used and then I'm only out bout $3000 for the gun and the friggin' expensive spare parts which didn't help. Like most guns - works great in the honeymoon phase but complicated parts means means more expensive to operate and maintain. Next time maybe I'd have better luck with buying Graco Stock instead. Atleast then I might be able ot sell it during the honeymoon phase and make some money on the suckers like me who bought it. So much for their improved warranty too!
Harry Nauling Posted: Sep 27, 2008 11:48 AM	I Have Sprayed the CS And i think Its well made for some applications but all in all the fusion gun is one of the best guns I have used for half pound foam!
SPRAYFOAM GODDESS Posted: Oct 01, 2008 07:34 PM	Riversnrocks - I sent you an email and would like to help you get this gun up and running. Please call me.
Michael Flander Posted: Oct 02, 2008 11:06 AM	I would also like to point out that there are distributors out there who will help you if your original one is not. I have also personally worked with Graco engineers on the Fusion CS and any issues they have had after the release and can tell you they are working hard at making sure everyone is succeessful with the gun. If you are not, then you need to get in touch with the right people.
Posted: Oct 13, 2008 10:14 AM	After reading about the new fusion I had to try it. It seems like a great concept. Unfortunately the gun started misting clear shot as soon as i turned the air on. Had to spend the rest of my night switching back over to the probler so i could spray the next day. Did anyone have the same problem?
Michael Flander Posted: Oct 22, 2008 03:15 PM	Most likely just a dosing piston problem. Call your supplier, should be able to get you a new one pretty quick.
Posted: Nov 02, 2008 07:50 PM	I have had the same problem from time to time. I was told this was somewhat normal. Anyways tghe problem is not too bad where we are going through tons of CS. This gun is the bomb though. It definatly has sped up our production and quality of work. But the best advantage about the CS gun is its ability to keep our sprayers happy. They are not having to drill out the mix chambers every 5 min (Fusion AP), its keeps its pattern, hey keep working, and our product looks great. Definaly recomend this gun!
Gerry Wagoner Posted: Nov 03, 2008 07:30 PM	We demoed a CS during October. Sprayed allright, but we kept getting funny blisters in the polyurea. Still don't know what caused the blisters/bubbles and we are waiting for the Sherwin Williams lab to communicate the results. We never got any blisters with the P2 & MH combination. Questions but no answers yet.. regards, oG
painter213 www.specialty-products.com Benny Abbott Phone: 205-717-0292 NACE Level III #7953 SSPC PCS # 2014-529-139 SSPC CCI Level II #64351 Posted: Nov 03, 2008 10:09 PM	This is what I do not like about the CS Gun. I do not want to shoot a shot of liquid into my coating that the coating was not designed to have. I was wondering when someone would have this problem. If I was a coating supplier, I would see this gun as getting me out of some liability issues. Benny Abbott Abbott Consulting and Coating Inspections NACE Certified Coatings Inspector #7953 205-717-0292
Linerman Posted: Nov 03, 2008 11:04 PM	Thats exactly what I was wondering about the CS everytime you pull then release trigger you get a mist of CS out of the gun and to me that seems like that would be a problem, some foreign material getting all over the surface to be coated. Thus I could see blisters becoming an issue.
Michael Flander Posted: Nov 14, 2008 04:01 PM	The amount of CSL that comes out of the gun on each detrigger is a very very small amount. It takes several trigger pulls with the safety on just to get it to show up when shooting at a wall or something. Olger, I would really like to hear about the results you get back on that testing if you don't mind. I value your opinion and would like to know if the CS gun is found to be part of the problems you were having.
Linerman Posted: Nov 16, 2008 05:35 PM	That very small amount is all it probably takes.
Michael Flander Posted: Nov 18, 2008 03:21 PM	Could very well be, which is exactly why I want to know if any of you guys are finding problems with it :).
Bubba Pallo Posted: Jan 28, 2009 10:57 PM	The CS gun blows. Another marketing scheme to tie the consumer into an over priced consumable product. Tiny twist lock side seals you'll never get apart on the "A" side and more complicated than the AP with the dosing piston and a variable flow safety that no-one can figure out. Who needs 10 positions of flow anyway? The Fusion AP is by far the easiest gun to maintain on the market and it's a pain to get the guys to take proper care of it! The P2 is a great gun too, but for me the dual pistons are a pain and why does the gun need so much piston force anyway? They should revamp the P2 with a simple one piece piston like the Fusion AP. That would be sweet! Back to the basics!
clint moore Posted: Jan 29, 2009 09:35 AM	Since all the problems arose with the CS gun Graco has redesigned some of the key components to the gun. The side seals no longer have the chamfered edge,the tolerance of the dosing piston has been made tighter,tolerances on the side port of the chamber have changed.The check vavles going to the housing are easily disassembled. Also they are saying it only takes 1/2 pump of grease at end of day,not like the AP gun. The new gun and parts are series B and can be designated by a line under the letter,these parts are not interchangable with the old style CS gun. According to Graco if you have a CS gun you can exchange the old housing with side seals and chamber for the new as well as the dosing piston at no charge. If you bought a gun under the try before you buy program and are still not satisfied with the gun you can return it for a refund. Your distributor should be able to help you with these changes.
Bubba Pallo Posted: Mar 03, 2009 01:38 PM	The Fusion CS gun still sucks even with the changes. You still can't buy the side seals separately. What this means is if you need a pair of side seals you have to fork out $316 (list) for 2 complete side seal cartridge assemblies. A set of Fusion AP side seals is $32.60 (list). A rebuild kit for the Fusion CS is over $200. Graco blows!!!
Linerman Posted: Mar 03, 2009 08:27 PM	I don't know if anybody else remembers, but the original Fusion had its own set of problems when first introduced along with the EXP's. They do kind of rely on the end user to identify any problems they may have since everyone pretty much handles their equipment differently. The only explanation I can offer on the seal kit situation is how many of us are really buying new guns and equipment. These guys make most of their money in selling replacement parts rather than new machines.
Posted: Mar 04, 2009 08:02 AM	Graco part 256463 has a new list price. Found info on the webinar. $158.00 1/2 the cost.
Bubba Pallo Posted: Mar 04, 2009 09:35 AM	256463 is the part number for one side seal cartridge assembly. If you need a pair of side seals, you must buy two of these at $158 each = $316. OUCH! Thanks again Graco.
Posted: Mar 04, 2009 09:58 AM	I was told this is both assemblies. A&B This is a resonable cost. Sprayfoam Goddess told me the separate side seals would be available again in April. Graco has taken good care of me. Robin is also a great help!!
Frank Bood Posted: Mar 04, 2009 10:43 PM	Does anyone like the new CS? I use it on my dual rigs for 2lb foam only. It seems to have a better over all spray and is more controlable when in tight areas. I like being able to adjust the amount of foam at the gun rather then running down to the rig to turn down or up the pressure. It being new to me i find it has a bit of a learning curve for most of my guys but other then that it seems to be made for me. I like it.
Bubba Pallo Posted: Mar 05, 2009 10:50 AM	I stand corrected. 2lb is correct $158 gets you a pair of complete side seal cartridges with side seals. If you need Fusion AP side seals you pay $32.60 nearly 5 times less.
Leonard Stansbury Posted: Mar 07, 2009 06:56 PM	i just got a fusion and it has worked great clean up time is total 15 min
SprayFoamSupply.com Posted: Mar 08, 2009 10:32 AM	We have started doing our own field tests on the CS gun. Looking good so far. 1 cs cartridge per set of 2lb foam. Only had to drill the tip once in an 8 hour shift. Definately worth the cost of 1 cs cartridge. George
Frank Bood Posted: Mar 08, 2009 03:34 PM	Hi George, What pressure do you run your cs at? We run ours at 75-80 psi and it seem to make the cartridge last a whole set as apossed to 100 psi we run the ap's at. Thanks in advance
SprayFoamSupply.com Posted: Mar 09, 2009 07:39 AM	80 psi is good. The plunger at the bottom of the cs cartridge is under air pressure, so the more air, the more fluid used. Plus with the chamber being lubed up, less air pressure is needed to purge. George
SPRAYFOAM GODDESS Posted: Mar 16, 2009 05:28 PM	Awww, thanks 2lb giant. I am relocating to the state of Washington, so I will not be of much help until May or June, but I look forward to working with you again.
Gerry Wagoner Posted: Mar 25, 2009 08:19 PM	The polyurea blisters traced back to the Graco EXP-3, or the Fusion CS. One or the other is the culprit. We sprayed some of the same batch material on Monday with an MH/P2 combination. Absolutely perfect. Had to be the Graco stuff. Weather conditions were (sling psychrometer) the same, and it was the same material. best regards, oG