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Loren Edwards
Posted: Nov 21, 2012 11:24 PM
New and need some help
I am new to the foam business I have been up and running about a month. Its been a real learning curve. I purchased a slightly used PMC set up with 40kw gen set. It was used by the first owner for doing mobile Urea coatings. My main focus of business is insulating metal buildings. I have a bunch of friends that assy the buildings so I have a foot in with the customers. We are using a 2lb close cell on the buildings. We are trying to get a smooth coat for a nice appearance. We are doing a decent job on the walls, but the ceilings are giving us some trouble. We applying 1" using a Gama AP1 gun with 01 tip. It takes us 4 or 5 coats to get an 1" which is killing us on time. I was curious what you experienced guys would recommend on tip size and application methods to get better results. I know the AP1 is an older style gun but we have a pile of spare parts for it and hate to start all over with the spares. I did demo the AP2 last week.. It was light and easy to use but the spray pattern wasn't to my liking. I know they have alternate tips to change out but I didnt have any to swap out.

My trainer 2 weeks ago was pushing me to the AP2 now he is pushing me to the P2 which I havent found much info on. I have had conflicting info from him and unsure I trust his recommendations.

My next question what the hell do you use to clean the foam off the gun. I have used Acetone, NMP which works ok but it eats thru every glove I have tried. I got a solvent from another company that he claimed was great and its less effective than acetone and at 175.00 per gallon isn't sitting well with me.
Any suggestions on what to use?
Cory Boehs
Posted: Nov 22, 2012 01:04 PM
I am not acquainted with the PMC guns, but the one thing that catches my eye is 5 or 6 passes to get an inch.... Do you have an 02 tip that you can try? Most metal buildings are wide open enough that even a new applicator can handle an 02. An 02 will give you a bigger pattern and is easier to make it smooth out. We have found that an 01 and closed cell don't work too well together. Also, what are your pressure and temps? As your temps go up, your pressures should go down, and vise versa. Another thing to consider is the brand of chemical you are working with. They aren't all created equal! Feel free to email me and get in contact. I'm all for good new contractors! Email is info@koolfoamllc.com
Loren Edwards
Posted: Nov 22, 2012 04:07 PM
Thanks for the reply. I ordered a 03 and 04 tip that I will be trying next week on a job. Im running 130 degrees on the preheat and on the hose temp. Pressure is 1000-1200 on the line.
Cory Boehs
Posted: Nov 22, 2012 04:20 PM
You may want to cool your heat down. As you are spraying, your "puddle" needs to dark brown, then froth to white. If your chemical is coming out like shaving cream it's too hot.
Loren Edwards
Posted: Nov 22, 2012 08:54 PM
No its brown coming out and in a few seconds turns white. I do notice when spraying the roof i get like runs on the ribs that cause the uneven look to it. We have tried increasing the distance to 3' and doing a quick light coat then go back over it the additional coats slower with more build up. It still seems to get runs and drips. My worry is if i go to a larger tip that this problem is going to be worse.
mark moyer
Posted: Nov 23, 2012 06:40 AM
gycol ether..by it from industrial solvent supplier,,i get her in a 30 gallon keg,,,last for a few years that way,,and it aint a buck seventy five for a gallon either..but a mans gotta make a profit dont they...
ok,,,this is serious solvents wear appropriate gear,,soak a rag to wet with solvent,,,not dripping but liberal wet...wrap gun body with rag,,make sure you get good contact with handle and trigger and such,,,put this in a large zip lock bag,,,set it on the bench overnite,,the fumes of the chemical with soften the adhered foam and most of it will just brush off or blow off with air in the morning,,the rest will take just a gentle provacation with something sharp,,,
dont know about the pmc,,
but 1" overhead on a metal buildings typical ribbed profile you are not going to lay it smooth..duh,,the ribs are 1.25" deep or so,,,so every corner is gonna show or you are gonna be long in your app on the "flats" to level off the ribs which now have twice the foam in them...
so while you can kinda feather the app on the sides you aint gonna get it done overhead...i only shoot 2" prefer 3"..but the service temp of the building really makes the call..
mason
Posted: Nov 23, 2012 09:33 AM
Metal building ceilings should be some of the easiest applications to spray. Technique is important as well as the right gun and spray pattern. How much overspray is coming down? You might be too far from the ceiling. Also, judging by how many lifts it takes for 1 inch, you might have slightly A rich foam. Give me a call to discuss, I might be able to offer some spray techniques. Have sprayed thousands of metal buildings. 571-239-5221
SprayFoamSupply.com
Posted: Nov 24, 2012 07:24 AM
If the material is brown for a few seconds and then turns white, then it sounds like it is too cold. It should only be brown for less than a half second before it goes white and starts to rise. Can't you get your foam supplier to provide you with some on the job spray training and classroom style safety training? 4 to 5 coats to get an inch is not making you good foam or any money. Thin passes like that do not generate enough heat for the foam to react properly. They also greatly reduce yield. 1/2" thick is the industry standard for minimum pass thickness. I am not familiar with the pmc guns, but the P2 is a great gun! So are the fusion air purge and clearshots. If you would like to discuss the differences between the differnt graco guns, I would be happy to explain them to you. Or if you would like to come to one of our classes you can call as well. I will be in the office Mon at 7.

George
603.745.3911
Loren Edwards
Posted: Nov 24, 2012 09:23 AM
Thanks for the responses. I will make some calls to you guys on Monday.
We have experimented with temp a good bit. The manufacture is recommending 130-135. The guy that came down to train us had us up to 165 on hose temp and we had constant cross over issues. We would spray 10-15 min then clean the gun for 3 hours it was crossed over so bad. When he left we backed the temps down after talking to a few people to 110 deg on pre heat then 130 on the hose and we hadnt had a crossover since. We did move the preheaters to 125 and its still no problems. So on the next job I will make some more adjustments. So we need to see reaction after 1/2 second? The foam yields seem to be about right. We are getting about 4000 bf per set or real close sometimes a bit more. I think our ratios look good, the drums empty at the same time give or take a gallon. We are probably have some waste due to the metal ribs and we are still a little inconsitent on thickness. My thickness can vary around 1/4 inch which on a 50x60 really adds up. We do seem to have a good bit of overspray on the ground and scaffolding. Mostly from spraying the ceiling. We go thru a bunch of peel off shields. As stated before we are using an 01 tip which came with the rig and it was used for doing bed liners. I think its way to small which is why we are doing multiple passes. My concern is if I go to a larger tip we are going to have even more problems keeping the surface with a smooth texture. Does the larger tips have larger patterns or just more material volume?
Mark Mouton
Posted: Nov 29, 2012 09:18 PM
To keep your gun reasonably clean, look up a company called SPF Depot and order some material he calls Release. It comes in an aerosal can (kind of pricey but it works). Spray some on your gun(not much)and the foam won't stick to it. Also, Spray it to your face-mask lightly, (it doesn't take a lot)not so it runs. When it gets to where you can't see good, wipe your lens off with a blue paper towel, spray a little more Release to your lens and start spraying foam again. Order about 3 cans. You won't regret using it. I order 2 cases at a time.
SPRAYFOAM GODDESS
Posted: Dec 03, 2012 05:18 PM
I was totally worried about him spraying with an 03 & 04. I told him to open the 03 and try it, save the 04 as to return, if possible. I haven't sprayed in quite some time but I remember at least getting 1". He sprays armathane, and I never heard of that either. I think he has bad foam too.
dave defehr
Posted: Dec 03, 2012 09:24 PM
My 'B' side valve is leaking. Is it just a matter of changing out the leaky valve and keep going?
Dennis Davidson
Posted: Dec 04, 2012 09:02 AM
Two questions that haven't been asked are: what is the surface temperature your spraying to and what grade is the foam (Summer, Winter or regular)?? It sounds to me like your spraying Summer grade foam on a cold surface. I've sprayed a ton of metal surfaces including metal buildings int and ext as well as tanks, pipes, ductwork etc. and if the foam isn't the right speed and the surface is cool or cold the foam will run off before it has a chance to rise. Even if you turn up the temps,it will still not react in time if the metal surface is cold. You should have NO problem spraying 1, 2 or more inches in a single pass if the conditions are right. I also us the AP2 gun with a no2 tip to spray overhead. As far as the pattern goes - use the drill bit that came with it to clean out the tip every 10-15 mins and you should be able to spray all day! We use it for both foam and poly sometimes using the same tip for several days.
Never run your temps over 130, even that is high for most closed cell foams. I generally run foam about 105-115 (350' of hose) with the pre-heater about 5 degs higher - with WARM drums!! Material must be at 75-90 degs to process correctly.
Spray your gun and mask lens as mentioned before with a foam release in the spray can everyday. Works great, cost about $20 a can and last a week or two. No need to soak anything in harsh chemicals that will destroy your O-rings.
mark moyer
Posted: Dec 04, 2012 09:19 PM
respectfully..
dynsolve swells orings
glycol ether doesnt,,soak away...
anymore though we rarely soak,.i use the gun sock if you go back a few years in the search engine,,,only drift is on the air cap...but its a pretty complicated idea..
Loren Edwards
Posted: Dec 06, 2012 08:27 PM
Thanks for the feedback
I found the spray release and have been using it the last few weeks. it works really well. We use boot covers to cover the gun and it works great for keeping the main body clean.
We tried some different supplier foam on the last job and it worked better. We tried the 03 tip it was a little to big for us. I have an 02 ordered and hopefully it will be what Im looking for.
I find the 110-120 seems to work pretty well for me. I have a few pictures is it possible to post photos on this site?
SPRAYFOAM GODDESS
Posted: Dec 10, 2012 01:56 PM
This guy also needs some support help for parts & equipment, he has a Gama G40 and the new gun.

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